Ministers Roundtable

On the roundtable:

• Robert J. Samuelson — Contributing Editor, Newsweek
• Ola Alterå — State Secretary for Energy, Ministry of Energy, Enterprise and Communications of Sweden
• H. E. Maria van der Hoeven — Minister of Economic Affairs of the Netherlands
• His Excellency Jean-Daniel Tordjman — Ambassador for the Competitive Clusters of France

Robert Samuelson: Increases in carbon dioxide emissions, 1990-2006: US: 17%, France: 13%, Netherlands: 23%, China 162%, Sweden: no growth. How are other countries coping with this problem? Any government dealing with these issues has to have both policy and a relationship with the private sector. What's the process been like and how will it evolve?

Maria van der Hoeven: Without public-private partnerships, we can't meet the challenges or capitalize on opportunitoies. It's not enough to improve present processes. We need each other to make innovation happen. We set ambitious targets and standards, and give the business sector the opportunity to use new products. We need breakthroughs to meet our goals. As an example: our steel industrty is working to reduce emissions by 60%.  You need government to set the targets, you need the private sector to step in and turn these opportunities into business -- that's what they're for.

Robert Samuelson: Everyone's expecting to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. If you do, where do you expect the reductions to come from -- households, commercial, transportation?

Maria van der Hoeven: Next year we're going to evaluate and see whether we need to speed things up. All of these sectors have opportunities which have to be used. Energy efficiency leads to lower emissions.

Robert Samuelson: How has Sweden curbed emissions?

Ola Alterå: We're a small, cold country. We're vulnerable to global competitiveness -- we couldn't afford not to move to sustainable. We're moving to an energy mix of more renewables. We put a tax on carbon, promoted renewable electricity. Private-public partnerships in R + D happened and will increase. We lowered institutional barriers to pave the way for new technologies. The price on carbon is essential.

Robert Samuelson: When you're substituting renewables for other fuel, are the costs higher? Do you pass that on to consumers?

Ola Alterå: There haven't been a lot of subsidies. The CO2 tax provides for innovation. The most cost-efficient solution. You need incentives so that innovators can be profitable. There's a learning curve -- costs are lowering as people become more competitive, so this is a long-term energy solution.

Robert Samuelson: France relies on nuclear energy. Why, even with nuclear energy, did France's energy use increase?

Jean-Daniel Tordjman: It's a vast equation. The focal point in France is nuclear energy. We established an energy commission post-WWII and sold to the country the idea that nuclear energy is good for it. We worked a lot to educate the public and explained how nuclear power wouldn't just be good for the world, but good for France. We had our own technology, and we benchmarked against the best tech in the world. We imported American tech and adapted it to our needs. We were working very closely with members of the government and local people to find ways to do this. The results were staggering -- 80% of electricity comes from nuclear, the cost is 1/3-1/4 of the cost of fossil fuels. We can use our network of high-speed trains, our electric cars, etc. because electricity is so plentiful. If you come from a country that runs on fossil fuels, it doesn't make sense to have electric cars. We're trying to work on nanotechnology. 0.15% (now) --> 15% of nanotech by 2020. We're educating the public on this and debating the usefulness of nanotech. The public acceptance of technology is crucial.

Robert Samuelson: Nanotechnology. How do you see nanotech affecting energy usage?

Jean-Daniel Tordjman: Nanotech will have applications in solar, car industry, aerospace, everywhere.  We were approached by the Chinese several times to work with them, but we were loyal to our strategy working with the Americans, and we're extremely happy. We have lots of people in research at the highest level.

Robert Samuelson: Political framework for these policies -- in Copenhagen, thought is that it'll be difficult to reach a meaningful agreement. President of European Commission gave a pessimistic speech. Is the US the main obstacle? What happens if Copenhagen fails, or reaches a stalemate and there's no framework?

Maria van der Hoeven: It would be dramatic. It would mean there's no global answer to the climate crisis. If we can't find an answer that's involved, it would be bad. But I understand the situation in the United States. We aren't isolated -- we can do whatever we want on our own, but our efforts will lead to very small results. We have to make meaningful steps together -- carbon has to be priced. There's no difference where companies operate.

You're implying that Europe's commitment will flag if Copenhagen fails, because it will put you at a competitive disadvantage. How fast will it happen?

Maria van der Hoeven: I don't think we're leaving our targets, but we have to be practical. This is a problem that affects us all, and we have to get that message to the world. We need leadership.

Ola Alterå: We recognize that there are domestic challenges. As Kennedy said, we do this not because it's easy, but because it's hard. I don't like to talk about failure. Sweden's faced enormous challenges, but we can meet it and transition -- doing more with less. It's about sustainability, competitiveness, and security. The time is short to Copenhagen, but the time until we see massive climate change is also short.

Jean-Daniel Tordjman: We need targets and policy, but the reality is going to be in business. Why is the US so good at translating tech into business? It goes back to Abraham Lincoln, who gave US universities 17 million acres for research. We're observing what you're doing and trying to do the same -- giving land to universities. In 1802, Napoleon sold Louisiana. It was the best deal you ever had. Thomas Jefferson knew how to deal with the French personally --knowing by reading is not enough. You have to open your walls. It's necessary to have the vision from inside to work.

Coming up next: a roundtable on global economic opportunity.

— Sarah Spooner

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